Yoga legit really great a managing stress and getting your mind off tense subjects.
Dehydration genuinely fucks over your ability to regulate your mood and concentrate on tasks at hand.
Like, I know you want to be mad at the “Easy Answers” crowd. But also, sometimes there are things that consistently improve your life. And people know it. And you can just do them and feel better.
A bit like asking someone who is in pain “Have you tried ibuprofen?” And then they’re angry at you until they take it. Then the pain subsides. And sometimes they even say “Thank you”.
Or my parents’ go to, “You gotta stop thinking about those kinds of things, try being more positive”. What the actual fuck?
There’s also the “Oh yeah, same situation” crowd. People who feel the same way, who agree about the state of the world, and also struggle to get by.
Which in itself, isn’t a bad way to respond - it’s honest, after all. However, it makes the idea of “reaching out for help” worse than pointless - not only won’t I get any help, but I’ll get more validation that I was right to feel hopeless in the first place.
Or the ones who play Misery Olympics and try to 1-up (1-down?) you.
What do you expect others to help you with in this situation?
they don’t even know.
i had girlfriends with these issues… they just often lack the emotional maturity/forethought to realize that there isnt’ anything other folks can do, and they vaguely expect like other people to just magically make their problems go away, and they resent you for not being the ‘cure’ to their problem.
it doesn’t necessarily have to do with mental health, it could be physical, or just a job they don’t like, or a ton of other things.
the issue is the person suffering, is looking for a solution outside of themselves and their own actions, and refuses to acknowledge the solution requires them to change themselves or their circumstances, and often like change habits or lifestyle or etc.
i remember being a suicidal teenager and I just wanted it to stop, i wanted the bad feelings to stop. i had no clue how to get them to stop because they just kept coming at me. some people just… are like this their entire lives and they often self-medicate because that is a way to get them to stop temporarily. but getting them to stop systematically… is a much larger challenge, and there is no guarantee the problem won’t come back.
and yeah one option is to join a community or have friends who just validate the shit out of your bad choices or share your frustrations and complaints with. because those folks won’t ask you to change or try something new, they will just agree with you that you’re fucked and there is nothing you can do.
Some people like to vent though too. I’ve been told, hey, I’m not looking for answers, just an ear. I always try to offer some help or advice, but I realized that isn’t necessarily what the other person wants, it’s what I want. So I try to listen, try to say more than just “That sucks,” and if I get asked for help, I’ll see what I can do.
But sometimes, it’s just “That sucks,” and that’s usually because you made your bed and now you need to lay in it, but that’s kinda mean to say to someone who’s already not feeling so great.
there is nothing wrong with venting.
however for too many people venting is all it ever becomes. and those people are always the same folks who won’t let anyone vent to them. because everything becomes about what hapless victims they are and nothing can ever change their life.
way too many folks just want to vent vent vent vent vent and never ever address the problems. they refuse to change their job, refuse to try new things, refuse to meet new people, etc etc. and their entire identity becomes their misery. so yeah, they end up only being able to socialize with folks who endlessly validate their toxic attitudes and just get stuck like that for years or their entire life.
or they get stuck in a cycle of exploiting kind people who just eventually get sick of their shit and their poor miserable lifestyle. can’t tell you how many of my exes, and how many people i date before i even get into a relationship, theri entire life is this cycle of misery and refusal to change and self-medication.
like you know how many first dates i go on where the person just vents at me for 45m about how they hate their life? like 2/3 of them. And yeah, as total stranger it’s not my job to help you, it’s to get the fuck away from you because you clearly lack the maturity and self-control to not dump your problems on a stranger. not to mention, most of the ‘venting’ done at me by these people are ‘problems’ like they can’t afford first class plane tickets, or they can’t afford a Porsche and it’s not fair.
anyway, these are the same folks who demand others be ‘emotionally mature’ as in, validate them and never challenge them. because you know, it’s everyone else’s fault that you don’t like your job, your ex was mean to you, your parents suck, etc etc. and they are supposed to fix it for you, otherwise they are worthless assholes. it can’t be that maybe you’re the worthless asshole who needs to fix your shit and make changes if things in your life are pathologically making you unhappy.
and as for you, sounds like you just are getting off on yourself by being a ‘helper’. the truth is, you aren’t really helping, you are more than likely enabling and validating shittiness. would you ‘help’ an alcoholic by buying them alcohol? plenty of victims of alcoholics fall into this trap of enabling and being abused by the person, that’s the reason things like Al-anon exist, because folks who refuse to help themselves almost always end up dragging everyone else down with them.
If you’re struggling with depression, you need to see a doctor. To go with the metaphor in the meme, the average person isn’t trained to save a drowning person, who can also end up drowning anyone who tries to save them. Lifeguards are trained to save drowning people.
yep. i had a girlfriend with depression.
she refused to do anything about it. other than weaponize it against me. and blame me for it. it was horrible.
many folks just refuse treatment and act like the world is the problem, or their friends/family are the problem.
“I’m sad”
“Here, let me try and cheer you up”
“IT DIDN’T WORK! NOW YOU’RE THE PROBLEM!”
“Okay, I’ll give you some space.”
“Oh, so you’re just going to ABANDON ME?!”
“Nevermind, I’ll shut up now.”
“Aha! The SILENT TREATMENT!”
:-/
If only I could afford the $200 co-pay per visit. Some of us are too poor to afford mental health.
My sister’s husband was one of the most active people I knew: jogging, cycling, basketball, long nature walks… It didn’t help him with his depression, though. Or at least not enough.
That actually sounds kinda decent response. The person giving advice is just trying their best, we aren’t all therapist
I’m fully aware of the irony of downplaying how complicated emotions can be ITT, but after all my years depressed or whatever mixture of things I am, I think the simpler concepts have done me the most good overall really.
I came across these 5 words a couple years ago, and it struck me as the exact advice I needed for a long time.
Don’t believe everything you think.
“The mind is an excellent servant, but a terrible master.” David Foster Wallace
Web searched it, and the quote from his speech “This is water” is actually
Think of the old cliché about “the mind being an excellent servant but a terrible master.” This, like many clichés, so lame and unexciting on the surface, actually expresses a great and terrible truth.
Edit: The speech was a good read
Thanks for the added context and providing a link for folks! It’s a decent commencement speech overall and I appreciate the attention he draws to the importance (and difficulty) of perspective in it. If anyone understood the “great and terrible truth” of the adage, it would be him.
Yes! Our brains when left unchecked can be a torment nexus - stating grounded in reality (not your thoughts!) is crucial
Try some exercise. For a brief time, the sadness is overshadowed by physical pain and a burdensome sense of weakness, inferiority and futility.
It’s good to change things up once in a while!
For a brief time, the sadness is overshadowed by physical pain and a burdensome sense of weakness, inferiority and futility.
The best way to do something is to do it once, decide it is impossibly difficult, and then tell anyone who encourages you to try again to fuck right off.
The second best way to do something is to not do it and say you’d have failed anyway even if you’d tried.
It’s good to change things up once in a while!
It literally is, though. You see the line “Touch grass!” get thrown around a lot. But seriously. Go out and touch some fucking grass. Take your shoes and socks off. Get your piggily wiggles deep into the earth on a sunny day.
Physical exercise has a very good evidence base, as good as antidepressants and without side effects.
My legs hurt, that’s a significant side effect 😭
You can reduce the intensity but the important thing is to keep going. After a while either the pain goes away or you get used to it.
You can do less! It still helps! (But I imagine you want to do that amount)
Last time i really opened up, i was one upped and then fired a couple months later because opening up made people (my boss who one upped me) uncomfortable.
😑i feel you. Makes me think about gang members that rap about their life and people try to retaliate (to the lyrics). You’re just trying to be yourself and then everyone around you is just weird.
At a bare minimum i always appreciate an attempt to help, even if their ideas aren’t actually helpful
Yeah my sentiment. Feels like if a person doesn’t give you the response you need/want then I guess you move on. Weird advice because people bitch about people going around with their problems
I’m glad you’re getting more water now.
Way to stretch that arm, too.
The sad truth in this world is that, apart from your close friends, your partners and your parents (if you’re lucky), nobody cares too much about you in general. This can be devastating, but it can also be liberating.
I mean, I think more people than that do care about your immediate a safety and well being. If you collapse to the floor in the middle of your bowling league, they will call an ambulance. And if you break down on the side of the road, odds are someone will stop to help you out eventually.
But if your problem is “I’m sad”, then… what am I supposed to do about that?
That and in your first example you’re calling for professional help because you yourself are unable to help and that person can’t help themselves.
For depression that person can get help themselves (though of course that can be difficult to get the nerve to see a therapist/doctor) and anyone else, again, is not really qualified to treat/help you. Hence the advice in the meme.
Going through this right now
The sad truth in this world is that
apart from your close friends, your partners and your parents (if you’re lucky)nobody cares too much about you in general.I’ve learned that if I open my mouth and admit I’m struggling or a little depressed, the relationship ends very quickly. Even if you aren’t noticeably depressed, it doesn’t affect them at all and they only know it because you admitted to it, it’s like they think it’s contagious. Now, no matter what it’s big happy smile and I AM ABSOLUTELY GREAT LIFE IS GOOD HOW ARE YOU? My therapist is the only person I will ever tell when I’m having a rough time and even then sometimes it’s really hard to admit it and not keep pretending everything is good.
i stopped sharing or trying to reach out a long time ago. its much easier to keep people around if I just do unhealthy “habits” and try and hide evidence than risk losing more people.
i trust nobody anymore. safer.
There also “you won’t know if you don’t talk about it at all”, take a risk and maybe it will help.
What could go wrong?
What else could I do for you, besides saying, “that sucks, friend”? Asking seriously.
- I can offer you advice based on my own experience, that may or may not work for you.
- I can refer you to talk to someone who has a professional degree in studying feelings, who may be able to help you with better advice than me or prescribe drugs.
- I can sit, nod, pat you on the back through words.
If it is someone I know in person, I’d try to send them care package based on what I would think they liked.
The most important thing is empathising, and if you express that by saying “that sucks” that’s pretty good.
Saying “that sucks” is probably fine to say but it’s not my first choice.
Really the best thing you can do is show that you’re listening while they open up. I interpret that as listening mostly and making brief comments (something you can say in 5 seconds) relevant to their story.
Guess that’s basically point 3 in more detail.
The practical stuff is cool too. It shows you care
I’ve found Brené Brown’s way of describing empathy, and imo answering this question, helpful:
Thanks, that is helpful.
Depression is one of the hardest things I’ve ever talked to people about. People that don’t get depressed don’t get it. People that are they themselves depressed can enable bad behavior. People that don’t believe in depression (thanks dad) think that you are over reacting. And people that want to help are usually the ones that don’t really get it either and don’t know how to help.
Of course there is a bias towards negative experiences as when you are depressed those are the ones that stick out the most. But it still seems like bringing it up to people is such a mixed bag that most people end up internalizing it which only exacerbates it and continues the cycle of hiding emotions (I’m speaking from a male perspective if it wasn’t obvious).
And as someone that has been horribly depressed at various parts of my life I honestly can’t even give any good advice since those parts of my life are such a blur. All I know is that one day I was just okay without even realizing it. Sure I still get depressed from time to time, but I think the part that has changed most about me is my perspective. These days instead of focusing on the feelings of depression I focus on what is causing the depression. Sometimes there is no cause and I just have to deal with it, but most of the time I can figure out what is currently doing it and try and mitigate the issue if I can. And if I can’t, I’ll try and distract myself when I have free time instead of sitting inside my head.
Everybody’s journey is different and I recommend taking what I say with a grain of salt. I was able to face my demons by myself but I know I’m more of am exception rather than the rule. If you think you need help, you probably do. And I recommend help from a professional or someone close to you that has had similar life experience in the past. Talking about it may not seem like it helps sometimes but it really does make small dents over time. And speaking about it out loud can really help you work through something and put it into words instead of generic thoughts floating in your head. It’s why a lot of artists and musicians poor their emotions into their work. It’s easier to work through things in the real world than it is with the abstraction of ideas that is your mind.
And believe it or not, the advice of “drink water and do yoga” is less about the actual activities and more about letting your mind and body do something else besides be depressed. Pick a different activity that you actually enjoy and just see where it goes. The worst that can happen is that you are still depressed but have a new hobby. And, let’s be real, none of us drink enough water.
Amen man. You have a great approach and this is the way we should be teaching folks.
I have a similar story. As a adult on my own, I just had so much perspective and ability to like deal with my depression. I also learned to just let it be and not fight it, an that usually just disempowered it and it was not as big of a deal.
Personally I feel too many folks don’t think of mental health issues like physical problems. They treat them as this special mysterious thing, but a lot of the same solutions and techniques you’d deal with for physical problems or chronic pain really pragmatically translate to mental health.
And like mental health, folks with physical issues who refuse to acknowledge them often make them worse and become defined by them. And a lot of folks are really stupid and stubborn about these things and too proud to seek help or act like acknowledging the issue would make it worse or something. Or they might just go join some online community where they can complain without every having to get the pushback of changing something or seeking treatment, and fall into the self-pity cycle.
