I don’t hate computer games or young people, I’ve had both for ages.
I’m not a big fan of Valve, or the billionaire running the app store from his mega yachts.
BTW’ing seems relevant. It’s an ecosystem that’s been largely focused on turning a gnu/linux workstation into an x86_64 Steam player for over a decade and now Valve are using BTW as $UPSTREAM. It’s what this kinda thing evolved into as actually compiling stuff was harder than copy and pasting ''yaourt eyebleach-kitchen-sink-bin steam" https://www.shlomifish.org/humour/by-others/funroll-loops/Gentoo-is-Rice.html
Ask a question on X11 in the world of BSD, Debian, RHEL, Ubuntu, Raspberry Pi OS, Gentoo, Alpine, Rocky, MX or in the nerd mines of Phoronix, Linux Questions or Stack Exchange and people will help that have knowledge, ask in BTW lands and there will be witch hunt by people who have no idea what they are talking about.
If X11 goes down it would be like Mad Max: International banking and airports screens would just go black, Moscow, Pyongyang and Beijing too…even more important stuff like adverts could stop working at scale.
I don’t hate computer games or young people, I’ve had both for ages.
I’m not a big fan of Valve, or the billionaire running the app store from his mega yachts.
I’m sorry, but that’s not how you come across, at least to me. I can understand not liking Gabe and I can even understand not liking Valve, but your complaints about their incluence on the Linux ecosystem seem entirely unwarranted.
BTW’ing seems relevant. It’s an ecosystem that’s been largely focused on turning a gnu/linux workstation into an x86_64 Steam player for over a decade and now Valve are using BTW as $UPSTREAM. It’s what this kinda thing evolved into as actually compiling stuff was harder than copy and pasting ''yaourt eyebleach-kitchen-sink-bin steam" https://www.shlomifish.org/humour/by-others/funroll-loops/Gentoo-is-Rice.html
I’m sure speaking in riddles doesn’t help, but I think I understand what you’re saying. Valves decision to use Arch as an upstream distro makes complete sense to me. They would want pick and choose from reasonably up-to-date packages, roll their own kernel and make use of some of the community effort to facilitate gaming on Linux.
Ask a question on X11 in the world of BSD, Debian, RHEL, Ubuntu, Raspberry Pi OS, Gentoo, Alpine, Rocky, MX or in the nerd mines of Phoronix, Linux Questions or Stack Exchange and people will help that have knowledge, ask in BTW lands and there will be witch hunt by people who have no idea what they are talking about.
The wave of popularity for Arch got memed into existence a while ago. Long before wayland was even a viable alternative. Of course the communities suffered some collateral damage in the form of noobs, but that’s not a new thing either. Most mainstream distros have had these kinds of issues for a long time. You’re not going to be able to blame Valve for that. Phoronix is a poor example imho, that site has always been full of idiots and not moderating the forums has opened the gates for all kinds of lunatics. Ever read the forums under a piece of news about Rust? It’s a lot of very opionionated idiots who know extremely little about programming. What about the arch forums? They’ve been reasonably helpful and knowledgeable for the longest time, yet they are part of “BTWland”, no?
If X11 goes down it would be like Mad Max: International banking and airports screens would just go black, Moscow, Pyongyang and Beijing too…even more important stuff like adverts could stop working at scale.
I’m not impressed by the technology choices of businesses and public infrastructure. Most of it uses Windows anyway for some godforsaken reason. I know you’re being dramatic, but even if X was just yanked out of existence, for the purposes of digital signage or other such extremely basic computing tasks it really shouldn’t be such an issue to switch to something else. Most issues would probably crop up on Linux workstations, running a bunch of software through XWayland. The vast majority of Linux computers however, don’t need a display server.
I know you’re being dramatic, but even if X was just yanked out of existence, for the purposes of digital signage or other such extremely basic computing tasks it really shouldn’t be such an issue to switch to something else.
We’re still using COBOL for stuff like Visa and Mastercard for almost every contactless payment, saying ‘just port it’ is not how it works.
BTW’ers more the world of x86_64 only cutting edge gamestation/workstation that could snap at any moment and is heavily populated by people using linux as a daily driver workstation that want to ‘rice’, need high steam fps and are often rather evangelical about the idea of ‘choice’ on a distro that offers almost none of it. Not the ‘How to install Steam on Kali’ peeps, but not far off.
I’m not saying X11 is god, just been happy with it since 2012 or so and think I can at least chill for another good few years.
I should add Alan McCrae and other Arch devs are wonderful peeps that can use pacman/abs as us mere mortals would apt or portage, but many Arch consumers are not this way ime.
We’re still using COBOL for stuff like Visa and Mastercard for almost every contactless payment, saying ‘just port it’ is not how it works.
That’s a weird comparison for multiple reasons. For all the complexity of X, it sure isn’t turing complete. The examples you listed for the importance of X basically boiled down to digital signage, in which case it wouldn’t be the end of the world to “just port it”. It sure as shit ain’t the international banking system.
BTW’ers more the world of x86_64 only cutting edge gamestation/workstation that could snap at any moment and is heavily populated by people using linux as a daily driver workstation that want to ‘rice’, need high steam fps and are often rather evangelical about the idea of ‘choice’ on a distro that offers almost none of it. Not the ‘How to install Steam on Kali’ peeps, but not far off.
How does Arch offer almost no choice? Compared to what? LFS? Gentoo? Let them “rice” and optimize for gaming workloads, why ist that so offensive? You’re essentially complaining about noobs and children and unless they’re doing something really stupid, like Steam on Kali, or being obnoxious in the forums, there’s no real reason to get so upset. Linking every single topic back to the same imaginary societal conflict in the Linux world cannot be healthy. Again, this isn’t a new thing and you’re just trying to link it to other things you don’t like, whether or not there’s a connection.
I don’t hate computer games or young people, I’ve had both for ages.
I’m not a big fan of Valve, or the billionaire running the app store from his mega yachts.
BTW’ing seems relevant. It’s an ecosystem that’s been largely focused on turning a gnu/linux workstation into an x86_64 Steam player for over a decade and now Valve are using BTW as $UPSTREAM. It’s what this kinda thing evolved into as actually compiling stuff was harder than copy and pasting ''yaourt eyebleach-kitchen-sink-bin steam" https://www.shlomifish.org/humour/by-others/funroll-loops/Gentoo-is-Rice.html
Ask a question on X11 in the world of BSD, Debian, RHEL, Ubuntu, Raspberry Pi OS, Gentoo, Alpine, Rocky, MX or in the nerd mines of Phoronix, Linux Questions or Stack Exchange and people will help that have knowledge, ask in BTW lands and there will be witch hunt by people who have no idea what they are talking about.
If X11 goes down it would be like Mad Max: International banking and airports screens would just go black, Moscow, Pyongyang and Beijing too…even more important stuff like adverts could stop working at scale.
I’m sorry, but that’s not how you come across, at least to me. I can understand not liking Gabe and I can even understand not liking Valve, but your complaints about their incluence on the Linux ecosystem seem entirely unwarranted.
I’m sure speaking in riddles doesn’t help, but I think I understand what you’re saying. Valves decision to use Arch as an upstream distro makes complete sense to me. They would want pick and choose from reasonably up-to-date packages, roll their own kernel and make use of some of the community effort to facilitate gaming on Linux.
The wave of popularity for Arch got memed into existence a while ago. Long before wayland was even a viable alternative. Of course the communities suffered some collateral damage in the form of noobs, but that’s not a new thing either. Most mainstream distros have had these kinds of issues for a long time. You’re not going to be able to blame Valve for that. Phoronix is a poor example imho, that site has always been full of idiots and not moderating the forums has opened the gates for all kinds of lunatics. Ever read the forums under a piece of news about Rust? It’s a lot of very opionionated idiots who know extremely little about programming. What about the arch forums? They’ve been reasonably helpful and knowledgeable for the longest time, yet they are part of “BTWland”, no?
I’m not impressed by the technology choices of businesses and public infrastructure. Most of it uses Windows anyway for some godforsaken reason. I know you’re being dramatic, but even if X was just yanked out of existence, for the purposes of digital signage or other such extremely basic computing tasks it really shouldn’t be such an issue to switch to something else. Most issues would probably crop up on Linux workstations, running a bunch of software through XWayland. The vast majority of Linux computers however, don’t need a display server.
We’re still using COBOL for stuff like Visa and Mastercard for almost every contactless payment, saying ‘just port it’ is not how it works.
BTW’ers more the world of x86_64 only cutting edge gamestation/workstation that could snap at any moment and is heavily populated by people using linux as a daily driver workstation that want to ‘rice’, need high steam fps and are often rather evangelical about the idea of ‘choice’ on a distro that offers almost none of it. Not the ‘How to install Steam on Kali’ peeps, but not far off.
I’m not saying X11 is god, just been happy with it since 2012 or so and think I can at least chill for another good few years.
I should add Alan McCrae and other Arch devs are wonderful peeps that can use pacman/abs as us mere mortals would apt or portage, but many Arch consumers are not this way ime.
That’s a weird comparison for multiple reasons. For all the complexity of X, it sure isn’t turing complete. The examples you listed for the importance of X basically boiled down to digital signage, in which case it wouldn’t be the end of the world to “just port it”. It sure as shit ain’t the international banking system.
How does Arch offer almost no choice? Compared to what? LFS? Gentoo? Let them “rice” and optimize for gaming workloads, why ist that so offensive? You’re essentially complaining about noobs and children and unless they’re doing something really stupid, like Steam on Kali, or being obnoxious in the forums, there’s no real reason to get so upset. Linking every single topic back to the same imaginary societal conflict in the Linux world cannot be healthy. Again, this isn’t a new thing and you’re just trying to link it to other things you don’t like, whether or not there’s a connection.