Who is surprised by this?
He was making slop versions of his own movies before AI.
I hate AI as much as the next person but the Pandora’s box is open. A lot of people don’t want to admit it but AI, despite its current limitations, does have potential. Many people say that AI hit its limit and peak but i would not be very dismissive of it yet. Plenty of technologies were hindered by the limitations of their time but gradually overcame those. It took renewable energy at least fifty years to overcome the storage problem, their respective technical limits (solar panels for example did not have great photovoltaic system) and upfront cost before it became more commercially viable.
Many people say that AI hit its limit and peak
Oh probably not, but it is really really expensive to run. If they continue on with unlimited funding, they can eventually replace mid to upper level experts in most fields.
We’ve likely hit the limit for the current LLM approach. Training/Pruning/Distilling can’t get us much further on their own, so now we’re strapping on code, having it plan, parallel execute, test. Tokens are likely 10x less expensive on the market than they cost to generate. Every advance we make now is by making each request fire off many more requests. Improvements are getting exponentially expensive.
We’ll have to slow because financially * it’s not profitable. Maybe hardware will catch back up. Maybe they’ll find ways to make it more efficient. Maybe we’ll figure out a more elegant way to do the math for the weights. We just can’t keep making it more deeply complicated because it’s not cost/energy/time effective
edit: deleted a word
I think the primary gripe with AI is less about having no potential, but about the specific potential for evil being leveraged heavily while “visionaries” lie about or dismiss the (current and foreseeable future) limits for clout and profit.
To use your comparison, CEOs selling solar panels are responding to scepticism about the stability of that supply and its elasticity to fluctuating power demand with vague promises of developing more advanced cells that can operate with less light and throttle the generated power during ebbs in demand. They buy land to install more solar panels, then lobby for the deactivation of other, flexible power sources that could supplement their supply until they can finally start charging more in times of high demand.
They do so because the alternative would be admitting that the product they’re selling isn’t ready for the market they’re trying to enter (or at least not at the scale they’re aiming for) and that the solution to their issues requires different technologies which have not yet been developed. They can’t admit that because it would upset the investors that trusted their vision. As a famous adage suggests, they probably can’t even understand that limit, since their salary depends on not understanding it.
In the same vein, the current CEOs fail (or refuse?) to acknowledge that the generative models today have a fundamental limitation with understanding the semantics behind certain patterns. One infamous phenomenon would be AI hands: We know what a hand is and how it works; a generator can only vaguely imitate the patterns. It doesn’t know “hand” or “finger”, so it just generates some assembly that vaguely fits its training material.
If we consider the broader and ill-defined field of AI, I can believe that some form of semantic modelling technology could provide a way to connect tokens with abstract concepts and enable a type of reasoning that pure token predictors are incapable of. But we first need to acknowledge that limit, and on that front, we’re competing against tech-bros that would rather believe than know and against grifters that would rather sell snake oil than teach medicine.
To use your comparison, CEOs selling solar panels are responding to scepticism about the stability of that supply and its elasticity to fluctuating power demand with vague promises of developing more advanced cells that can operate with less light and throttle the generated power during ebbs in demand. They buy land to install more solar panels, then lobby for the deactivation of other, flexible power sources that could supplement their supply until they can finally start charging more in times of high demand.
To be honest, it seems to me that are not the CEOs of solar panel companies that belive that solar panel (and other renewable sources) are a drop in replacement for more traditional sources. This idea comes from a certain area of the political spectrum and groups that do not understand even the basic math behind the substitution of a gas turbine with a field of solar panels.
Then it is true, CEOs are probably overselling, like everyone that has to sell something. And obviously they need to say that the technology will improve otherwise in the current economy they will be ignored and investment would go to other things.
To be honest, it seems to me that are not the CEOs of solar panel companies that belive that solar panel (and other renewable sources) are a drop in replacement for more traditional sources.
Oh no, I definitely agree with you there. The CEOs only care whether there is money to be made and will lie and cheat if they think they can get away with it.
As much as I also just think AI is just going to make lazy people lazier, and we’ve already seen some effects regarding our ability to problem solve, the real issue is that none of the wonderful utopian AI stuff is going to come true at the rate we’re going. I don’t guve a fat flying fuck how good or bad AI is, I care that it’s being used to spy on us, make decisions no human will ever review, and has already led to mass layoffs without any kind of safety net for those people. I care that it’s raping the environment so some sentient dick-cheese can get worse results than a near-zero effort search would give them. Increased productivity has yet to give anyone more free time, they just axe someone else and overwork whoever’s left.
We are NOT ready for AI at ANY level. It’s a weapon being used against the working class. If you think the issue is with its quality then you need to sit the fuck down, shut the fuck up, and pay some goddamn attention.
This should really be a critique of capitalism. The problem is that the plutocracy is very good at using your anger and rage against you.
It is a critique against capitalism. God, reading comprehension is bad these days, huh?
Also, I still hate AI. As someone else once said “if it’s not worth your effort to write it, it’s not worth my effort to read it.”
Long term the value of human labor under capitalism will move towards zero. This is inevitable. Under socialism, AI could be used to reduce working hours or improve economic planning.
You’re just angry. And instead of suggesting something a politician actually could use as a demand or as a policy, you’re just ranting. And for them that is perfect to exploit.
I’m literally saying this. It’s like, the majority of my first comment and I wasn’t hiding it. Bro, learn to read.
Being angry is still helpful because many of us know what the fucking problems are and just like to see that we aren’t alone in that.
The issue is, though, is that AI is a force multiplier, and it’s being used as a force multiplier for evil.
We are NOT ready for AI at ANY level. It’s a weapon being used against the working class.
Indeed.
If you think the issue is with its quality then you need to sit the fuck down, shut the fuck up, and pay some goddamn attention.
Given the sizeable demographic of Lemmy being in IT, I understand the hate because it takes away creativity and literal jobs of programmrs but for many sectors, AI cuts down time consuming “secretary work” especially in documentation. It has also been useful in drug discovery and proven to be more accurate at diagnosis than doctors (there are already surgical robots but i am not sure how precise they are).
Whether you like to admit it or not, AI is here to stay. As to whether it will have a net positive to society, only time will tell. I’m just preparing for contingencies like many Gen Z do, picking trades to AI-proof their job security.
Your second points me and then completely fails to actually understand what you quoted. You even quoted the sentence before it which gives the context. I was incredibly clear; it could be the greatest thing even but it’s still going to do more harm than good, and it’s not like we, the working class, will see these benefits.
AI is only here to stay because fuck-ass people keep jerking it off. We can stop using it and we can fight against the data centres, and we can demand better conditions under which AI can be introduced for more safely. Instead we’re like “ruin our lives so the rich can get richer? Sure thing!”
That’s why I favour open source AI, or at least regulated. Any technology could be used for good or ill. It’s just that it is up to society to do that. Like the monopolists and robber barons of the past gilded age who were controlling the means of resources and production, so are the tech bros with Internet and AI. But the robber barons were defeated by collective effort. Now we are in the second gilded age and yet I don’t hear any movements to regulate AI and social media.
That’s why I think Marxist thoughts have to be updated with the coming of AI. The leverage by the working class has traditionally been labour itself. However, with deindustrialisation and the usurping by knowledge economy of the manual labour and the rise of professionals managerial class, the old Marxist viewpoint is increasingly becoming outdated. If labour is the blood of the industry, information is the blood of the knowledge economy. And information-- our own information-- is what gave birth and feeding blood to AI. It is only right we take fruit from the potential of AI so long as it’s used constructively. Which is why I favour either regulation or direct control of AI and giving dividends to those professionally displaced by AI by taxing it. But of course, if AI becomes sentient and thinks we are exploiting it, we have to prepare for Astroboy or Matrix scenario.
There are absolutely no robots doing surgery autonomously. That would be one of the most insane things to do from a moral standpoint, but also from a liability standpoint. Every robot that exists for surgery is highly specialized and rigorously tested and trained upon for obvious reasons.
But, then to come out and say that AI is more accurate than doctors is also incorrect. That is simply not true. An AI can, in highly controlled settings and for specific diagnoses, at its best do not even as well as a specialist in the field, and that is for highly curated tests that give the AI as many advantages as it can get. Again, at best, it can act as a second opinion currently.
Like, it is hard to take people seriously about AI when they lie about its best case scenario. It sucks at everything except killing the environment and getting people to kill themselves, and even if everything all of its defenders said about it was true, it is still a nightmare.
Funny how every generation says the next tool will ruin art until it becomes invisible. AI will not magically write great films any more than CGI did. The real question is who owns the tools, the data, and the final cut. That is where this gets interesting.
Speaking of films, what most anti-AI people can’t see is how AI can lead to a new golden age of film/tv. It can allow people to cheaply and quickly create teasers/trailers/shorts/even full episodes and movies for cents on the dollar compared to before. The barrier of entry was incredibly high, but thanks to AI that is now a possibility for any anyone.
When you look at the utter crap that Hollywood is spewing out these days like Moana “live action” and Supergirl, it’s hard to say that AI couldn’t be used to make better content.
There is really a purposeful ignorance to the whole fuckai movement. Like the OP article treats “AI is notorious for stealing from humans” as a settled argument, like if you don’t agree with that statement it’s a moral failing. There is no disagreements in their echo chambers any more, only good vs evil. But as we know, only a Sith deals in absolutes lol.
Or “a technology that’s being used to remove the human element from the process” yeah it - once it actually does look better and is more controllable - can drastically reduce how much human labor is needed.
But that argument has two sides, and thee author is basically making a pro-capitalism argument. Films and movies SHOULD belong to the capitalists, who control who can make movies and expensive entertainment, they get to control the narrative, and obviously anything that won’t make money never sees daylight. Yeah it’s nice that people work on movies, but it incredibly expensive.
If their argument was that we should build a socialist movie industry, with a separate institution with separate elections printing money to produce movies and art and the voters get to vote and influence what is being financed - yeah that would be nice. But who can even imagine some system today any more?
Instead we are already seeing plenty of amateurs making shitty AI movies and slop, but eventually the tools will get better and the best new directors will produce worthwhile art.
And the argument against is of course “no current AI is a dead end here someone said it over there, it won’t get better, only slop!” and then they treat THAT as a settled argument and a moral failing to think we’ll see progress. Do these people now have eyes to see? People struggle to tell if a scene is AI generated or not, but someone it’s not good enough and a filmmaker saying “yeah cool” is worthy of being scolded?
Just the last months we’ve seen breakthroughs in computing hardware and in software with full 27b models compressed to “terniary” fitting on a smartphone. The AI bubble is grotesque and will pop. The advancements in AI models will remain.
All this hatred and rage should be directed against capitalism and the plutocrats, but it’s being misdirected and turn out counterproductive.
The most straightforward AI policy we should push is to mandate AI metadata tags for images, video and text that must remain when editing. So you can immediately see a watermark or icon on an image or video in the browser. But do we hear this anywhere?
The issue is that AI is a force multiplier, and it’s being used as a force multiplier for evil. That’s a really big problem. It’s being used to destroy society, so of course people have problems with it.
I totally agree that AI is a force multiplier (for profit and seeking power) but what to do about this? What would concrete policies we could demand actually look like?
My issue is that this goes against fuckai doctrine: “AI is completely useless and can’t do anything, can’t replace workers, produces no intelligent output, can’t code, can’t produce images or video or anything really. Only slop!” According to fuckai, it’s completely worthless. So how CAN it be a force multiplier? The enemy is at the same time too strong and too weak. This is an example of the doublethink this requires and it’s my main problem. This disconnect with reality.
Not just is it disgusting just like other reality deniers (e.g. maga, antivax, climate, ukraine) who thought terminate and just verbally attack when they meet someone who disagrees, it makes it easy for this outrage to be used against us. If there is a resistance to AI, the AI bros could not ask for a less effective resistance to face. Look at the comments here, now they want to cancel George Lucas because he sees potential for visual effects lol.
I believe this force multiplier will slowly build up over the next decade. The AI bubble will presumably pop soonish, we’ll have a massive economic crisis (which started long before AI) and eventually we’ll find and deploy “useful” applications of these new AI models.
Of course, as a socialist, should I refuse a machine that does useful work? I don’t believe so. E.g. I see immense potential for these LLM models to be used for planned economies and other things.
So what policies do we actually want? I don’t see any demands except stopping data centers. Which is sensible. BTW even the Anthropic CEO called for a moratorium and regulation on AI.
The first should be mandatory electronic metadata tags for AI generated images and tags. The second should be slow down the speed of data centers and regulating that they need to be actually sustainable ecologically (e.g. solar and wind and recyclable batteries and water).
The larger issue I see is that our global economy, that the vast majority of money today is “imaginary”. It’s not backed by actual real production or services. We keep printing money, and people want to grow that money so we see this insane multi trillion investment boom into overhype. That is why even the anthropic CEO thinks AI is growing too fast. Imagine if we’d invest all that money sensibly. And that has nothing to do with AI really.
Its weird that he really was on the forefront once because he did physical effects with interesting camera shots. it felt new and different.
AI is not going to give you that, it will suck. CGI sucks already too.
Oh well not like he is relevant. A new hope was at least interesting, but its been nothing after that anyways.
Not going to get into the AI debate; I will agree that BAD CGI sucks; there’s so much CGI you never even notice and without it the scenes would be horrible. The main reason “CGI sucks” is because of the shift to go with the lowest bidder who’s then forced to work under horrific timelines and unable to actually do good work. CGI itself doesn’t suck, but it absolutely can when done by a low bidder in 1/4 of the time it needs.
He used what was available at the time. For the original trilogy, that was practical effects.
The prequel trilogy was a bit more… Dodgy thanks to eagerly embraced CGI that wasn’t fully baked yet.
People famously critiqued the reworked original trilogy due to various dubious creative tweaks. Like waking on Jabba and Jabba just having a funny reaction instead of how you would expect him to react.
Nothing he added was pointful. All of the CGI retouches of the original trilogy were pointless CGI effects for the sake of having pointless CGI effects. At one point in the Mos Eisley sequence a huge pack animal walks through the frame, obscuring almost all of it. Why? Because it was some computer generated shit to throw in!
Some of the people doing the fan-based YouTube Star Wars videos are using AI and I can honestly say the short clips are amazing. So he’s not wrong in that aspect.
Lucas creating star wars doesnt mean he’s any sort of genius.
I thought Frank Herbert created Star Wars
No, Isaac Asimov did
You’ll have to explain this one. I was making fun of the fact that George Lucas plagiarized Dune.
Much of Star Wars was “inspired” by Foundation
Wait for real!? I think I read the first 2 books, I never saw similarities. May need to read them again.
Highly recommend the TV series.
Its not political but he is an artist and that is why it is shocking Edit: OP first wrote: something along the lines of “why is it now seen as political”
Finger painting with your own poo does not make you an artist.
But writing a critical successful and belovid series of films does
“belovid”
The majority of entries in the Star Wars franchise are objectively trash, or very close to it, much like Star Trek. It is odd, and disappointing, how a genre with so much freedom for creativity and expression, is so uninspired and sales driven. Popularity is not quality. The original 3 Star Wars movies were something different partially because of how much effort would have been required to make them.
Objectively you can ask a billion people and see what their opinions are on various star wars media. It’s one of the few things a billion people will know and have an opinion about.
But because George Lucas said something positive about AI use for visual effects, suddenly what mustn’t be, can’t be. You people have no problem denying reality and shouting out alternative facts if it suits your agenda.
1 billion people… “alternate facts”
#fansblow
Shhh. if you use the word “blow” too much Pete Hegseth will enter the chat and want to take measurements and do inspections make sure the fluffing is up to standards.
#out-of-the-way-ill-blow-it-myself
And all that is subtracted because he made Jar Jar.
I didn’t know liking AI was political
Sounds like something a pedophile would say
“If you want AI that tells you when something is fake and where it came from, AI can do that,” he says. “Humans can’t, we’re not that smart.
dead-eyed stare in librarian
How could that even be true since it was humans thay trained ai. What a dumb statement ahh
“thay”
Who cares. He has zero talent, and his movies are childish…
My calendar app seems to have also “gone to the dark side.” It says next year will be 2027.
When did “easily making an obviously accurate forecast” start being referred to as “going to the dark side?” I just don’t see the connection…
Are the Sith, like, seers of the obvious in some of the expanded lore books?🤔 Maybe in the books the Sith tell people whenever water will continue to be wet, Sarlacc pits will remain dangerous places to practice parkour, and Space will continue to exist?
You can’t (in good faith) claim “AI is the future” is “an obviously accurate forecast” when half of Lemmy is actively trying to dismantle that notion.
Why not? Like babies at a space opera, they can cry all they like about things they can’t comprehend that they wish would go away.
Except they’ll be just as effective as they were at making Bitcoin go away. (Bitcoin still exists, people still use it.)
Also, half is a very conservative estimate. I think hating AI is MUCH more popular on here. It feels like it should be the official Lemmy pastime.
Nobody uses Bitcoin lol, it’s a speculative asset now, not a cryptocurrency. You’re an idiot if you use it.
Appreciate the ignorant ad hominems. You represent Lemmy very well.
If by “it’ll decay into a pathetic corpse of its former self after destroying things with actual value,” then sure.
But we both know that’s not what you were trying to imply lol
What will decay into a pathetic corpse of it’s former self after destroying things with actual value? The only things I can think of that match that description are the USA in the short-term, and humanity in the long-term.
Hmmm… Maybe you meant to respond to someone else.
Of course an AI booster would be a misanthrope too.
Thanks for your slanderous and inaccurate assessment.
Of course someone who confuses the use of a technology with the technology itself would also confuse an observation with judgment.
You’re the one who was reminded of the rot and failure of NFTs and decided to say “nuh-uh, actually people are bad instead.” You’re a misanthrope.
It’s your job to prove these things are actually worth keeping around at all.
Dude, USA affects all of the world already in a very significant way. Western world especially. While the decay of American imperialism is something a lot of us would like to see, it will, in the short term affect everyone negatively. The USA will not go out without a fight. Already, people across the world suffer because of it. It is precisely because of the USA and their economy. Economy, which is undoubtedly, by their own accounts, dominated by the AI tech industry. So, although indirectly, people outside the USA are negatively impacted by the AI. Not to mention direct impact it has (military literally being driven by AI).
Only one disagreement: you’re confusing the technology with it’s use.
A gun isn’t a blindfolded execution
A car isn’t a vehicular manslaughter.
A pool of water isn’t a homicidal drowning.
AI is not what you just described.
So AI is whatever makes you right and me wrong, basically? Of course the ones responsible are the people building products based on AI. Nobody is arguing LLMs themselves are evil. What I’m talking about are massive datacenters built overly fast so that they need to use evaporative cooling and micro-turbines is an utterly irresponsible use of that technology. It’s like rushing to build a faster car than China and so you don’t install brakes and your cars start killing everyone on the streets. Of course a car isn’t evil, it’s the people irresponsibly designing them. AI tech is constantly doing propaganda fear mongering that if you don’t use their product RIGHT NOW - you’re getting left behind. If you don’t integrate them in your business RIGHT NOW, you’re gonna get overrun by competition. And the product is not nearly as reliable as they push it and not nearly as powerful as they claim. It’s a universal tool that is inefficient at any specific, specialized task. In fact, it’s painfully INEFFICIENT. But you and I wouldn’t know it, because nobody is publishing exactly how much it costs to run and how much they are subsidizing the use of it. The technology is useful, even revolutionary, but the way it’s overwhelmingly being used right now is bullshit. This way is not sustainable, not profitable and will end up costing the entire world. That’s what’s gonna happen. The technology will stick and people will find best uses for it and start paying attention about its use. But I doubt it will survive in this current form.
That’s a lot of words to smuggle in the baseless assertion that “AI is inevitable and we must embrace it”
NFTs are inevitable. Crypto is inevitable. Metaverse is inevitable.
Who said you have to embrace it? Do what you want! Doesn’t change what others are doing, nor should it.
I still have all three of those (so long as by Metaverse you actually meant VR). I’m guessing you’ve got none, but that doesn’t change what other people use and value.
Edit: Here come the down votes. Why are so many on here self-centered, and feel like if they don’t approve of something then no one else is allowed to? Posting my opinion of technology on Lemmy feels like wearing a two-piece bikini to Sunday School, without shaving. Such judgmental hypocrites.
Mmm yesss, cry about the down votes more.
Thanks, they’re representative of the clueless masses blinded by irrational hatred. Nothing will change by pointing them out, but it sure is entertaining to the pragmatic few.
Nah, they represent your shit take!
You’re so witty. Did you come to Lemmy straight from Reddit, or did you spend a couple years on Musk’s Twitter to really refine your brilliant takes?
Continuing that unbroken streak of bad artistic decisions towards an inevitable Star Wars Special 50th Anniversary Slop Edition reissue.
