I did not think people like you actually existed, but here we are…

This is all you have, isn’t it? You aren’t addressing any of my actual points. In fact, you seem to be fundamentally misunderstanding them or ignoring them, and even putting words in my mouth, and then just insulting me. Very productive.

The watching him sleep angle is insane, too. She is watching him sleep because Wish Nikki does not like her dreams. It’s heavily implied that Nikki has some limited control over Wish Nikki throughout the fucking film, and this is another one of those cases. She doesn’t like her dreams because the real Nikki has more control there.

Fake Nikki is watching Bear sleep because she is OBSESSED with him. In a movie called “Obsession”. It is not just implied, but ESTABLISHED that the real Nikki can exert some control whenever the fake Nikki is asleep. But that is not established until AFTER the scene where she watches him sleep. I’m not sure why you are bringing this up anyways, or what point I made earlier that you are addressing with this.

When Bear dies at the end of the movie, why the fuck does Nikki immediately shove Bear’s body onto the fucking floor once she’s free and begin sobbing?

Because it’s a BLOOD SOAKED DEAD BODY. If she loved him, we might expect her to cling to his corpse. But the real Nikki did not ever love him, so her reaction is very natural. This is quite plainly highlighted by how the fake Nikki is embracing him as he loses consciousness and starts to foam at the mouth, and is starting to be concerned until he dies. That’s when fake Nikki ceases to exist and real Nikki is finally left to deal with the bloody aftermath.

Not really a thing you do to people you are supposed to see as a hero. I would argue that she understands that Bear was a fucking monster who raped her, which is also not a heroic thing to do, but maybe I just understand the movie better than you do.

I never once called Bear a “hero”, just to clarify. If you think protagonist = hero you need to go back to middle school literature class.

Just kidding, the director who made the fucking movie has pointed out repeatedly that Bear is the villain in interviews. So have the fucking actors.

Give me a link to the quote. I have looked around and cannot find anything remotely like this. In fact, I could find this quote from Michael Johnston, the actor who played Bear:

I never thought of Bear as a villain, but what really drew me to this story was the gray morals of it all. I love that it’s not black-and-white. I love that it doesn’t tell you how you should feel. It’s really up for interpretation, because the truth is, Bear has good in him and he has bad in him, like all of us. I do think that he leans more toward the bad in a lot of ways. But it was really important to keep the audience rooting for him in some ways. So when I played him, I just had to stay completely focused on what he wanted more than anything else, and try not to judge any of his decisions. But I would say he definitely starts as the protagonist, and I would tend to agree that I can see him becoming a bit of an antagonist. I love that. Fully, the antagonist, though? I don’t think I would say fully, because the key thing is he didn’t know that the wish was going to work. Sure, his desires were incredibly selfish. Totally, 100 percent, but he didn’t know the wish was gonna work. And then he dug himself into such a deep hole that he didn’t really see any chance of getting out, so he just kept digging himself deeper. But I love it. I love the discourse, it’s amazing. It’s so much more interesting.

So you are really just making shit up because you REALLY, REALLY want this movie to be about gender wars. I am not saying that incels or the manosphere are not problems. I am not saying that horror movies using those themes to express how terrible those communities cannot or should not exist. What I AM saying, is that this movie is not doing that. And the actor who plays the lead is on record in agreement with me.

who the hell decided what is metal and what isn’t?

I recommend freeing oneself from the chains of genre altogether.

Humans have a tendency to turn descriptive language into prescriptive language. So what started as artists experimenting ends up getting categorized into market demographics that are easier to sell to. Separate communities who, in order to exist at all, need to create rules about who does, and thus who does not, belong. And so what starts as free artistic expression reflects off of the audience and becomes economic and social pressure to conform to these rules. We end up with bands making “metal” music for the sake of being metal, at the cost of true artistic expression.

Is an artist metal? Is an album metal? Is a song metal? Is a particular instrument in a song metal? Is a particular bar played by a particular instrument metal? Is it even about the music, or is it about other things? The clothes, the color schemes, the fonts, the lyrical subject matter, the community? Does any of it actually matter?

Insanely wrong, like didn’t-watch-the-same-movie wrong

I literally scrubbed through the movie again as I was replying to you to make sure I had everything correct and to pull direct quotes, so maybe you’re the one who is misremembering? In that scene, we hear the MUSIC of the box when Nikki opens it, and that is when he panics and starts trying to vomit. THEN we hear the snap of the wand, his face changes, and he goes out to her. And of course she wished for him to feel the same way - that was obvious.

He did not know he was raping Nikki because there were two Nikki’s sharing the same body, and the one actively controlling the body consented. That’s why I referenced Severance, but there’s all sorts of fantasy and sci-fi about the horrors of the nature of consciousness and physical form. LATER in the movie, we finally hear from the real Nikki that “I’ve never been with you Bear”, which is reinforcing this.

She is absolutely messed up, and she doesn’t have any real ability to consent regardless of if she is possessed by a wish or if she is on drugs or if she is having a manic episode, so any sex he has would 100% be rape

Earlier in the movie, we see Bear initially backs away from Nikki’s advances when her behavior is disturbing. He The date scene happens after a montage of what appears to be weeks of them in a happy and consensual relationship, including having sex. The date scene is only the 2nd moment she shows of any odd behavior, and that behavior is still relatively mild and within the realm of normal humans being human. The horror lies in the dramatic irony that we, the audience, know that is not the real Nikki while Bear does not.

Couples have arguments and difficulties, and they have make-up sex too. Bear is trusting Nikki to communicate her own boundaries and respecting those boundaries when she does, like not wanting to talk about her father. As soon as they move on from that conversation, Nikki’s behavior reverts back to normal - she is clearly not on drugs or having a manic episode. I interpret that scene as him forgiving her for lying to him about her father and being willing to move on from it. To repeat - the horror lies in the dramatic irony that we, the audience, know that is not the real Nikki while Bear does not. The fake Nikki is in control of Nikki’s body and experiencing consensual sex while the real Nikki is experiencing rape. In fact, you might describe the entire past few weeks of having another consciousness take control of your body as rape, not just the sex scenes in particular. That is not something Bear chose or was even aware of at first, but rather something the One Wish Willow did.

It is also worth noting that is the last time that they have sex. That night is when Bear catches her watching him sleep, and THEN her behavior degenerates into things like cooking his cat and taping the door shut.

debating that makes you an incel because that is what incels would do. I don’t make the rules on that last part.

It sure seems like you’re making the rules and making up new definitions for what an incel is. This is basic media analysis and criticism, and I’m not insulting you for having takes I disagree with about a movie.

It is weird you think he cares about her because he brings her to the hospital when there is the long pause where he zones the fuck out while people are yelling at him to bring her to a hospital after she smashes herself in the face with a brick after telling everyone her poem about incest (ya know, because she thinks of Bear like a brother.)

The pause is for the pacing of the movie, to let the shock of it all hit the audience. To show his fear and uncertainty. It’s creating drama and tension. This scene happens after the point when their relationship has deteriorated - it is not as if we are treated to another happy-go-lucky montage of them having fun together after this. It is not as if Bear is trying to use her vulnerable moment here to get in her pants. In fact, once they get home Bear tells her he plans to stay the night at Ian’s. Something he probably should have done long ago, but once of his character flaws is that he’s slow. This scene is also more evidence that he cares about her - she uses that to manipulate him into staying with her. If Bear did not care about her feelings and emotions, fake Nikki would not have been able to manipulate him into staying with her as long as she did.

Bear is the villain of the movie. Just because he doesn’t seem like the villain at first doesn’t mean he is a good guy

Let’s do some character analysis.

Nikki is the biggest victim in all of this of course. Her free will and body were violated in a horrific manner, and I think we both agree there. Honestly I think most of where we disagree is that you seem to want to stop there and ONLY view the movie from Nikki’s perspective and no one else’s.

Sarah is a victim. She’s a relatively minor character, but she clearly has a crush on Bear. From her perspective, she had a conversation with her friend Nikki in which she expressed that, and Nikki talked about how she only saw Bear as a friend, then suddenly they are dating and Nikki has abandoned her entirely. So she feels hurt that Bear does not return her feelings, and she feels like Nikki lied to her and betrayed her by dating Bear. And, of course, she ends up getting violently killed by Nikki. It is worth noting that, despite being Nikki’s friend, she does not really show much concern for Nikki and is instead focused on her own feelings, but that’s understandable given the circumstances.

Ian is a victim in that he ends up dying. He’s also the most directly malevolent and selfish character we see. He tells Bear not to express his feelings to Nikki, and recommends calling her “freaky Nikki”. He has known about Bear’s feelings for Nikki for some time and appears to be his friend, so at first we assume this is simply honest and misguided advice. We later see him express some concern about their relationship, and think he is trying to be a good friend. Then Sarah reveals that Ian and Nikki have been secretly “hooking up” for the past 2 years, which changes the context of all of those interactions. We now see that Ian was actively lying to Bear to sabotage him, and that his “concern” for Nikki was actually him being upset that he was no longer having sex with her. When Bear shows up at his house distraught, covered in blood, and asking for help, Ian plays it off as a joke and dismisses Bear. Then he makes his wish, gets his money and… is too happy about suddenly having a billion dollars to care about what this means for Bear and Nikki. I would still not call Ian a “villain”, but he is certainly an antagonist.

Bear is neither a “villain” nor a “good guy”, he’s just the protagonist. He is flawed: he does not understand what love is, he is insecure, he is passive, he is too trusting of others. He trusts Ian’s advice about things like not telling Nikki about his feelings and calling her “freaky Nikki”. He trusts the fake Nikki with all of her reassurances and consent. He never tries to manipulate her - the only thing he does is express his desire in a moment of privacy and frustration. He doesn’t wish for her to have sex with him, he doesn’t wish for her mind to be replaced with some evil entity that is obsessed with him, he doesn’t wish for her to change, he just wishes that she loved him. He DOES care about Nikki, and the fake Nikki uses that against him.

In the opening scene, he doesn’t say a single thing about who Nikki is for why he likes her. He only says things about himself. He says she makes him feel good, that she was there for him. But he doesn’t say anything about her that doesn’t involve him. Because he doesn’t love her.

In the opening scene, yes he talks about how Nikki makes him feel, but not in a passive way. He does not want to go out with her because she’s hot or has social status, but because she is kind and caring. When he talks about her being there to support him, I interpret that as a pretty strong statement about who Nikki is. He literally says “Well, I realized who you are. And then, after Nana passed, you were the one that called called” We do not know - was Ian there to support him? Was Sarah, who has a crush on Bear?

He then goes on to say, "So I keep telling myself, “Don’t tell her. She’s too good. And she’ll… you’ll lose her. But maybe you should know… that I would choose you over everything.” And when he says that, the anonymous waitress sitting as a proxy for Nikki smiles and laughs and seems almost charmed herself. Ian stops him and says he is cringey, but the waitress says she thought it was sweet. That is not just Bear talking about how she makes him feel, but hard evidence of Bear believing that he knows who she is and caring for her. And, of course, foreshadowing that he will eventually kill himself for her.

Finally, this gets a bit more abstract, but I would lump the One Wish Willow, the company that makes it, and fake Nikki into one magical entity that comprise the closest thing to a villain that the story has. The clerk in the beginning mentions other people coming back and complaining, meaning that Bear is not the first victim. What Bear receives is not really love, it is… Obsession.

Ian is NOT the most malicious person in the movie because Bear literally rapes Nikki repeatedly. That isn’t to say Ian is a good person, just that there is definitely a worse person in the movie

Look at how their relationship progresses. From the very beginning when she insists on coming back to his house, he is hesitant and uncomforabtle, and only agrees because she’s clearly unhinged and does not want to be alone. He initially gives her his bed and plans to sleep on his couch, until she asks him to share a bed with her. He turns away when she takes her shirt off and leaves his own clothes on. Then she starts making out with him and he is hesitant at first. Finally, the true Nikki is able to “break through” and says “what the fuck?”, and as soon as that happens Bear backs the fuck off and says “you made me feel like I did something you didn’t like”, and fake Nikki regains control, plays it off as a panic attack. Bear is still freaked out and at that point gets out of the bed and sleeps on the floor instead.

After this, we see Bear look on the internet to see whether One Wish Willows might actually work. He finds mixed results and no satisfactory answer.

Then she comes back the next day to apologize for and excuse her odd behavior, assure him that she consented and he did not take advantage of her, and says that she likes him. Not just that, but Bear specifically asks how long she has felt that way and she says “It just happened over time. Started over Christmas”. Which, to me, seems a whole lot like Bear was trying to figure out whether this was fron the One Wish Willow or not, and the fake Nikki’s answer assures him that it was not. It is only AFTER that when they have sex, then a montage of what looks like a few weeks of the two of them being happy together. That ends with the date scene where Ian calls and starts to sew doubts in Bear’s mind again. That night is when he catches fake Nikki watching him sleep, and her behavior starts to devolve after that (taping the door shut, cooking his cat for lunch, we see her standing unable to move while he is at work, etc). He has more conversations with Ian and Sarah that sows more doubt into his mind, and then he calls the customer support line. Which ends with the representative saying “seems like you have a moral obligation to be there for her”. Then he goes inside and eventually they go to the party.

After the party scene he takes her to the hospital, then has a conversation with her about her behavior and tries to pump the brakes and stay the night at Ian’s. She convinces him to stay by guilt tripping him about how lonely she will feel. Then Sarah texts him, he gets to leave, and finally the real Nikki is able to ask him to kill her and says “I haven’t been with you Bear”.

Maybe it’s just that I recently watched Severance too, but it seems to me like the One Wish Willow effectively created a second consciousness that possessed Nikki’s body and pushed down her own. Bear does not know this at any point that he has sex with her, but they also are not shown having sex at any point after he starts doubting her authenticity. Nikki herself later says “I’ve never been with you Bear”. Like Severance, this show asks some uncomfortable questions about how consent can work if two minds share a body. I have seen some people claim Obsession is really about the horrors of Borderline Personality Disorder. I do not agree with those takes, but I do think it’s important to realize that for most of the middle of the movie Bear thinks that Nikki is behaving strangely for natural, not supernatural reasons.

Bear does NOT end his own life on purpose at the end of the movie, either. Bear tries to throw up the medicine to save himself and is only stopped because Wish-Nikki makes her own wish that inadvertently stops him.

He stops when he hears her open the box, not knowing what she is going to wish for, presumably because he wants to stop her.

Hell, the lesson of the movie isn’t even to not wish for love! He could have wished for love! The point is that Bear never actually loved Nikki. Every scene reinforces that he doesn’t actually care about her, that he doesn’t really know anything about her. He doesn’t even care that the Nikki inside of Wish-Nikki is being tormented. He tries everything to make Nikki into the person he wants instead of freeing her. He only cares about himself, and it isn’t even until Wish-Nikki starts literally killing people that he even bothers to actually try to undo his wish.

The very first scene of the movie is Bear opening up about his feelings for Nikki and explaining why he feels that way, specifically citing how she helped him to cope with his grandmother’s death. He isn’t some “incel” or “alpha male” who thinks that women are objects for his desires. He’s a weak, insecure person who has become attached to someone who has already shown him support in the past. He is slow to understand what is truly happening and does not make perfect decisions (he should have called someone else, probably Sarah, to hang out with Nikki that first night. He should have taken her to a mental health professional at some point, etc). If characters were not flawed and made perfect decisions, movies wouldn’t ever last more than 10 minutes. His wish is not to change her, but to be loved by who she is at the time he made the wish.

You say that he “tries everything” to “make Nikki into the person he wants”. What exactly does he try and who is this person that he wants her to be? For the first half of the movie, his actions are him trying to slow things down while the fake Nikki tries to re-assure him. At a certain point, if Bear were to refuse to believe her that would be undermining her own agency and infantilizing her.

You say that he “only cares for himself”, but he seems pretty concerned about Nikki’s wellbeing too. As her behavior escalates he becomes worried that there is something wrong with her. The fake Nikko’s manipulation turns into guilt tripping Bear about how lonely she feels without him, so he tries to accomodate her. If he were selfish, he would have gone to Ian’s party without her. If he were selfish, he would have stayed the night at Ian’s after that incident at the party. We also see that he cares about Sarah, especially in the scene after she is dead where he reads that she had gotten into Luther.

I never said the lesson was “not to wish for love”. I actually said the opposite- the lesson SHOULD not be that because wishes are a work of fiction and that would be a useless lesson. The lesson is that love requires free will in order to be real and fulfilling. And he tries to cancel the wish over the phone before Nikko starts killing people. It’s true that he does not immediately commit suicide himself like the representative implies, but… Well first of all we have another 45 minutes of screentime to fill, but also because he still does not fully believe the wish worked yet. It would be extreme and shark jumping if he killed himself jjsy because some bored and helpful dude working at a call center told him to.

“Monkey’s paw” does not necessarily require an evil twist. The whole point, the lesson to be learned from the fable, is that our own desires and fantasies often clash with reality and end in disaster. It shows how are own fantasies are poorly thought out, short-sighted whims.

That’s why I said its a “love potion” trope- those very often do not have any sort of “twist” or “gotcha” to them either. It stems from a paradox at the heart of what love is. We want someone else to love us, and we want that tk.be secured and guaranteed and unconditional. But we also.want it to be CHOSEN. True love requires the freedom of.its own non-existence. Without that freedom, it is meaningless. Philosophers have talked about this for centuries, pehaps.most notably Sartre. So the lesson from these sorts of love potion stories is that free will is an important component of love. It is risk and vulnerability and its terrifying, but necessary.

The love potion trope is fictional of course. One Wish Willoows do not exist. If the lesson Obsession is trying to teach its audience is “be careful.what you do with magical artifacts” the I think that’s a pretty silly lesson. What these stories are really metaphors for is all of the other ways that people can subtly try to influence each other into “love”, and the pitfalls of that. The man who earns money and becomes wary of “gold diggers”, or the woman who tries to use her looks to “snag” a man only to worry how she ages. The person who changes themselves to attract the person they like. The man who uses violence and abuse to force a woman to stay with him. The woman who gets pregnant hoping the child will convince the man to stay. There’s tons of these too that all have the same theme.

Another clear distinction that I don’t see anywhere is that Bear, even as he makes his wish, does not believe in it. He is clearly skeptical and only buys it because he thinks Nikki will like it. Then when he fumbles the conversation he breaks it himself, not in an act of desperation but in an act of futility. He could have chosen to save it tk.give it to her another time, but instead choses to literally break it to symnokizd giving up.on that idea. Movies also use this trope all the time:throw away the flowers before she seeds he bought them, eat the chocolate himself, etc. He expresses what he wants in a moment of privacy, and he is completely unaware in that moment that his expression will actually influence the world at all. He does not wish for Nikki to be possessed by what is basically a demon. In that sense, he does NOT get what he wished for because the real Nikki herself says she was never with him.

The phone call with the company gets brought up a lot. He’s clearly still skeptical at that point but desperate. What the audience does not get to see is… How did Bear want to “alter” his wish? My guess is.that he wanted a solution to the paradox of love- he wanted something that could never exist. Immediately when told that is impossible, he instead asks to cancel it. He buys another one and tries to use it to cancel the first wish. He tries to get Ian to undo it (low key Ian is probably the most malicious person in the movie, sabotaging Bear’s attempt to ask Nikki out for his own selfish reasons). At last, when he is out of options, Bear finally chooses to end his own life to free Nikki. The tragic lesson learned.

It’s a classic, straightforward “love potion” trope story, which is itself a subset of the broader “monkey’s paw” trope. A portion of the internet wants to turn it into a gender wars issue because that’s what the internet does. You can swap either or both genders and the story still mostly works.