mechoman444

I’m so happy its over.

Look if you like organized sports fine. You have my vote.

But God… I just don’t care.

It’s the shorts. I err I mean he likes the shorts.

This is a good bit of projection if I’ve ever seen it.

If this is your takeaway, my confidence in our people has dropped a few more notches.

“Waaahhhhh, this thread is a little too intellectual for my tastes, which must mean you’re all the dumb ones, not me, surely!”

No, I’m objecting because you’re collapsing multiple distinct concepts into the word “socialism.”

A worker co-op is a company where the employees collectively own that particular business. That does not mean the economy is socialist. It is still operating in a market economy, competing with privately owned firms, buying and selling goods, and responding to prices. That’s capitalism permitting an alternative ownership structure.

Socialism, in the classical sense, is public or social ownership of the means of production across the economy. How that ownership is administered, through the state, municipalities, public trusts, or some other institution, is a separate question. “Workers democratically control the means of production” is one proposed implementation, not the definition itself.

That’s why economic democracy, market socialism, worker co-ops, and socialism are related but distinct concepts. You’re treating them as interchangeable.

Ironically, this is exactly the problem I was pointing out. People hear the word “socialism” and start attaching every form of worker participation, workplace democracy, or cooperative ownership to it, even when those things can and do exist inside capitalist economies.

And the reason I’m ranting is because you are the exact thing I was talking about in my original comment.

So no. This is exactly what I’m talking about.

Socialism is not “democratic ownership of the means of production.” Where did you get that from? What YouTube channels are you watching?

Socialism is social or public ownership of the means of production. Democracy is a method of governance, not an economic system. The two are not synonymous.

In fact, there are companies right here in the United States that are run democratically. They’re called worker cooperatives. The employees collectively own the company, elect management, vote on major decisions, and often have much smaller pay gaps between executives and line workers. They’re successful examples of democratic workplaces operating within a capitalist economy.

Socialism, by contrast, is an economic system in which the means of production are owned socially rather than privately. That ownership can take different forms, including state ownership or worker ownership, depending on the model.

Capitalism is the opposite: the means of production are privately owned, and profits accrue primarily to the owners or shareholders.

And thanks for proving my point. What liberals have to do with any of this, I have no idea. You pulled that completely out of your ass because you heard it on conservative talk radio or somewhere similar.

You’re never going to win, and that’s not even the point. The point is to provide pushback to people who rarely receive it so that everyone else reading the exchange has a chance to see accurate information.

For example, it’s staggering how many people insist they want socialism when what they’re actually describing is social democracy, yet they have no idea what either term actually means. They’ll argue, foaming at the mouth, that humanity’s only hope is “socialism,” while demonstrating they don’t understand the ideology they’re advocating for.

The same goes for the abundance of anti-American rhetoric. Some criticism of America is absolutely justified—I have plenty of criticisms of my own country. But it’s interesting how many people who endlessly denounce America never mention what country they’re from or hold their own country to the same standard.

So no, the point isn’t to win the argument. The point is to apply enough pressure that the other person starts making obvious mistakes, exposing the weaknesses in their own position. That’s the entertaining part.

What the hell does testosterone have to do with anything? It’s a hormone, just like any other in the human body. Both men and women produce it. It needs to stay within a healthy range for the body to function properly. Too much is harmful, just as too little is.

That’s because it was severely over valued for a company that produces no product and makes no profit.

To be fair it was a solid pump and dump.