Which is your preferred messaging app? I just want some insights about these two.
You may share other messaging apps too.
Completely different use cases.
Matrix is shared interest groups.
Signal is for personal communication.
I’ve come to distrust Matrix, the metadata leaking is one thing but then combine that with the fact that .org is basically the default server and you almost have to federate with it, and they were started as an Amdocs project before spinning off into “the matrix foundation,” and Amdocs is Israeli, and while I don’t have PROOF they’re connected with Mossad I’d rather not chance it.
Plus, the apps all sucked last I used them, Element was the best and it was still buggy as all hell, and the Linux app is just an electron wrapper, and it was too hard to use for most of my “normal” friends (I agree, they should get good, but they do not get good, what should I do hold 'em at gunpoint and install Fedora, my options are limited). And the rooms had such a bad CP spam problem they stopped them from being publically searchable, you (now still?) have to know the room’s addr to join. Even still, with that CP problem, it becomes hard to reccomend family/friends to make an account. I don’t want to see that, I don’t want them to have to see that, and I don’t want them to think I want to see that and judge me because of spam in the RasPi room because I’m the guy that recommended the app, I don’t need that in my life.
Signal requiring phone numbers is also not my favorite, and the single point of failure is not the best either. Better than Matrix imo, but still. Also last I used it they still supported SMS and when a contact would delete Signal without deleting their account, the message would still try to deliver through Signal instead of defaulting back to SMS, so I’d have to switch my default to Messenger every time I wanted to talk to them and back to Signal when I was done. That was annoying.
Now happily using Delta Chat, easy onboarding for “normals,” low (no?) metadata leaks, webXDC seems cool, p2p video/audio calling, multi-relay support for resiliency, groups (but anyone can kick anyone, they’re meant for known contacts or family more than matrix-like rooms), no discoverability so nobody gets your acct by just having your phone number or etc (so my friend doesn’t have to worry about their abusive ex finding them on it like on IG or Snapchat), due to those last two things it doesn’t seem to have the same CP problem as Matrix rooms, channels are pretty neat, you can share location for increments between 30min and 24hr, bunch of cool stuff!
Isn’t Signal a CIA honeypot?
The CIA financed Signal (I believe they stopped a few years ago), however that was never really secret. It also happened in simpler times, in the earlier days of internet and mobile phones. In general it’s quite plausible that the CIA just wanted a really secure comms system that people they wanted to undermine regimes could use.
Contrast this with how the FBI and the Australian feds bankrolled Anomphones, which they then used to read the communications of criminals. That was kept secret until they were ready to brag about it.
My understanding is that the CIA also funds TOR, because they want to use TOR.
Ehhhh idk, afaik jury’s still out on that, but imo “could be.”
That’s partly why I use Delta Chat instead actually. Only partly, but it makes the list.
Even still, gun to my head, I think I’m picking Signal over Matrix as far as who I trust a little more. Not that I trust either entirely, and DC I trust more than both of those, but there’s always the possibility of some vulnerability if not a full backdoor. At least DC is FOSS and decentralized, I honestly doubt there’s a “backdoor,” but never know who has a 0-day.
Matrix is nice but it’s clear they’re appeasing more towards shareholders than the community, self-hosting via Docker Compose was a PIA as there are 4-5 services that need to talk to one another.
I don’t use either, bcz I use simplex in my personal life. It is really quite great!
My wife and I use signal. It has more features (encryption included) than regular texting.
I’m aware of decentralized alternatives but convincing my wife to use those (with the potential extra setup) would have been to much to ask. It took me years to get her to use matrix and that’s super easy to get up and running.
Currently me and my friend are using a self-hosted server with Matrix, and Sable as a client.
Sable is the only one with Discord-like functions out of all the clients I’ve tried, all the others falling very short.
Besides that there is Fluxer, which is far more feature complete than any Matrix client. It has some key features holding it back, though, which are no Federation yet, and no E2E encryption yet. But otherwise setting up your own fully functional server is incredibly easily.
Only because nobody answered with this one:
IRC
Decentralized and an open protocol. Client setup to connect is not so straightforward, but it’s a one and done. Very robust.
I’m allergic to centralized communication schemes, though I do use signal to communicate with one person.
I want to research some of the other suggestions that have been brought up, so thank you for the post!
That’s new to me. Thanks!
Lmfao that’s funny, IRC is the oldest of them all.
I prefer SecureBit Chat . No account, P2P, EE2E, Quantum resistent.
@Zerush funktioniert securebit.chat schnell und zuverlässig 24/7 ?
Ich glaub schon, gibts schon seit 10 Jahren.
Simplex
Matrix is only really enjoyable with unencrypted chats.
I have fairly recently switched phones. Now, a good number of older messenges fail to decrypt. Even when I don’t switch devices, a group chat for a three day long event with a very small group already gave us lots of fun decryption errors. Oh, and I have this other fun group chat where Fluffy Chat constantly reminds me that people whose devices I haven’t verified will be able to read my messenges every time I send something. Also, Matrix has coutless clients with different feature sets and I heard calls are a pain to ßet up.
Signal, on the other hand, just works. Federation and decentralization is obviously nice but a functional product is more importmant. I haven’t had a chance to try XMPP unfortunately.
Don’t you have your encryption key saved somewhere?
You should be able to decrypt the messages if you still have the old device to verify the new connection, or if you saved the encryption key that’s setup when you first login to the account.
Appreciate it’s not as simple as logging in, because that’s the point of separating the encryption key from login creds in the first place. Even if your accounts credentials are compromised, previous messages aren’t, and any future messages from the unverified device are flagged as suspicious.
XMPP has some good options. I tried utilising mov.im servers, which claims to have E2EE.(using conversations app to connect) Its very user friendly and just works. Though, I’m not sure how the encryption works on there as I’d already got my users used to element, and saw no reason to move (IMO its still a better option than signal due to the self hosting capabilities, but depends on what level of solution you’re after)
- If you have a targeted group/peer need then whatever they are using or whatever you all decide right in the beginning - I’d suggest Matrix or some other decentralised alternative, definitely not Signal.
- Matrix had the huge opportunity to be “the messaging app” but they neither became good at corporate usage and definitely ended up sucking at personal usage. They started doing too many things, at once, and while completely ignoring the individual user.
- If you want a wider general acceptance then sadly Matrix is DoA. WhatsApp becomes a huge choice outside USA and China but it has started becoming shittier by the day and looking at who has become WhatsApp’s global head now, I don’t think it’s gonna get any better (check his last “app” or company’s screenshots and come here if you don’t end up vomiting). So Signal or maybe some other similar app. You are limited by societal trends and acceptance here, not the tech or finesse or privacy of an app.
- If you just want privacy and a simpler app, proven (at least so far), then well Signal it is, as much as I hate it for reasons they decided to make it a centralised messaging app and then stuffed crypto in it etc.
- If you have a targeted group/peer need then whatever they are using or whatever you all decide right in the beginning - I’d suggest Matrix or some other decentralised alternative, definitely not Signal.
I prefer matrix for two main reasons:
- I can host my own server (and I do)
- It’s not centralized
As a bonus it has briddes for almost anything you can think of, so I use the signal bridge.
I created this to help find active matrix rooms https://activematrixrooms.com/
I use both signal and matrix.
Cool! Thanks.
I actually prefer XMPP. It’s also less of a hassle to set up than Matrix and the protocol is much more mature. There are still issues, but it’s rather functional for audio and video calls (if you’re using a supported client).
Edit: For clients, I use Cheogram on Android and Profanity (which is a TUI) or DinoX (for calls) on Linux.
I use both. No, really.
If one’s intent is to connect with as many people as possible, having as many messaging/real chat apps as possible is a good idea (imo).
That’s why I have WA, DC, Stoat, Signal, Matrix and IRC.
